(937) Thu 13 Feb 92 12:10p By: Joe Martinez To: All Re: Ummo St: Sent ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @UFGATE newsin 1.27 From: Joe@Phoenix.CAM.ORG (Joe Martinez) Date: 12 Feb 92 22:11:43 GMT Organization: Not an Organization Message-ID: Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories I know it's been a few days since this subject was originally discussed when I posted a follow-up. Unfortunately I'm having problems with my news-reader and my follow-up bounced back. I got another news-reader and I'm posting my follow-up. I hope it gets there this time, drop me a line by e-mail to let me know, thanks. :-) > > More about the "Ummits"... > > In article <1992Jan28.160758.7249sheaffer@netcom.COM> sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > >In article jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: > >> > >>I find it hard to believe that a star only 15 LY away hasn't been > >>identified yet. But otherwise, that was a fascinating article. > > > >I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe this, as that star would be a bright, > >*naked eye* object. Without doing the detailed calculation, at 4 > >light years, a solar-like star, Alpha Centauri, is magnitude 0. > >At 10 parsecs (32.6 LYR), the sun would be mag 5, a faint star but > >still visible to the naked eye. So at 15 LYR you're at something > >like magnitude 2, roughly like the stars in the Big Dipper. > > > >And scientists still haven't *noticed* this star yet, nooooooo! > > Not quite so... At first I had the same impression. Jean-Pierre Petit appeared in an interview for the French magazine "VSD" (in the September 15th '91 issue I believe), where according to the information given in a diagram, the star (Wolf 424) was supposed to be located in the Virgo constellation, pretty much between the tip of the two upper arms represented by the figure drawn by the Virgo constellation. Then I started searching through my two astronomy programs (Distant Suns 4.0 and Voyager on my Amiga) and couldn't locate the star in question. Finally, I picked an option from Voyager's menu which brings up a 3D view of nearby stars and found it! The star goes by the name of "Wolf 424QA" and has a magnitude of 13.2, an absolute magnitude of 15.0, at position RA: 12h 33.0m; Dec: +09 deg 07', and at a distance of 4.3 parsecs or 14.2 light years. This position places it exactly where shown on the diagram and the distance approximates 15 ly. At a magnitude of 13.2, it isn't in the program's database (which includes stars up to mag. 8.5) and is definitely not visible to the naked eye. > > I see that this is the main point that has interested you. It is true > that such a star could be identified very easily if the Ummit letters > were more specific. Again, I don't have the book with me, but I recall > that only two or three stars were corresponding to their description. > So far, no hint has been given to choose among them. Your calculations > are certainly correct, a star like the the Sun would be visible > to the naked eye at such a distance. > > What bothers me the most in that story is the fact that the Ummits > warn the contactees never to accept anything that they write as granted. > On the contrary, they should always doubt of the letters they receive. > > > > >-- > > > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > > > "Simply follow nature, Rousseau declares. Sade, laughing, > > grimly agrees." - Camille Paglia, "Sexual Personae" > > I like to discuss on a scientific basis about such stories. As I told > you, JP Petit, although very much biased towards believing in ufos, is > not the kind of guy to be abused by the kind of stuff that I read from > time to time in this newsgroup -especially today-. He doubts himself > of the story he tells in his book, but the scientific content he found > in the letters makes him think that at least very imaginative and > knowledgeable people are behind it. As far as I am concerned, I believe > that JP Petit could very well transform certain science-fiction books > in refered scientific articles. So, that case is very likely to be a hoax. > I would like to be more familiar with the Ummit litterature to make up > my mind by myself. I've assisted to a conference given by JP Petit up here in Montreal last year in November. He's 54 years old, a world class physicist and a director of research at the French CNRS (Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique). He's conducted research and written several papers in the fields of astrophysics, Cosmology and been on the forefront of (bear with me :-) MagnetoHydroDynamics research. He claims that much of his research over the past 15 years comes from or has been based on the Ummit letters he has acces to, through a Spanish esotericist: Antonio Ribera, who claims to be receiving them by mail (typed in Spanish with hand drawn diagrams) from the Ummits that have apparently infiltrated our society. I had the opportunity to examine photocopies of some of the original letters. Mr. Petit maintains that althought most of the scientific theory described in the letters was and is still being researched, the level of detail and understanding of the subjects discussed, along with the totally new, original, extremelly elegant and scientically sound solutions proposed and developped by the letters are far beyond the reach of any pranksters or cranks and even probably most physicits. Therefore, he tends to conclude that as the letters pretend, their source is probably from extra-terrestrial hands. JP Petit gives a pretty good conference and is a likeable fellow. However he doesn't seem to like ufologists at all :-(, being of the opinion that ufology is not a science and is totally lacking scientific rigor as well as credibility in most cases. He despises being labelled by anyone as a ufologist and rejects the label. He is one of the first in the scientific community to put is personal as well as professional credibility on the line and will usually defend himself from his peers with his credentials and by prooving the scientific formalism of his theories. Jean-Pierre Petit has authored two books on the subject despite himself. Both are originally in French, I don't know if they have been translated into English. They're published in France by "Editions Albin Michel S.A.", 22 rue Huyghens, 75014 Paris. The first one is: "Enquete sur les ovni" (Inquiry on UFO'S) which may still be out of print. The second is titled: "Enquete sur des extra-terrestres qui sont deja parmi nous" (Inquiry on Extra-Terrestrials Which Are Already Among Us); ISBN 2-226-05515-0. Both can be ordered for 57 French Francs (FOB) directly from the distributor: Editions Belin, 8 rue Ferou, 75006 Paris; or so it says in the last page. I have copy of the latter authographed by JP Petit himself. :-) Unfortunately, I've only broused through it so far, it's on my book reading queue, but it's up next. :-) there are 6 appendices to this book, the first a qualitative comment on the science contained within the Ummit letters, the next three are scientific papers published by Petit and written in English and the last two are scientific papers published in French. For what it's worth, here is a table that comes from the Ummit litterature (not the Petit book) ant that compares the Earth/Sun system to the Ummit's alleged home planet: Ummo and their sun: Iumma. EARTH UMMO equatorial radius (maximum) 6 378 388 km 7 251 608 km polar radius (minimum) 6 356 912 km 7 016 091 km planetary mass (metric tons) 5 979 trillion 9 360 trillion inclination of axis 23 deg 27' 30" 18 deg 39' 56.3" period of rotation 24.38 hours 30.92 hours gravitational acceleration 9.81 m/s^2 11.88 m/s^2 non-covered land (by water) 29.2 % 38.16 % distance from it's sun 149 504 000 km 99 600 000 km duration of year 365 days 212 days diameter of planet 12 756 776 km 14 503 215 km orbit eccentricity 0.0167 0.007833 SUN IUMMA mass 1.991 x 10^30 kg 1.48 x 10^30 kg temperature 5 785 deg Kelvin 4 580.3 deg Kelvin magnitude 4.73 7.4 spectral class G2 K distance from Sun -- 14.421 light years on 8-7-1967 Note: Magnitude from this table does not match (not by a long shot) that of program database. Also I had no spectral class data from program to compare with table... > > -- > =---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ marcmil@microsoft.com @@@@%% -- Joe Martinez Internet: Joe@Phoenix.CAM.ORG --- ConfMail V4.00 * Origin: Paranet(sm) - The world's leading UFO Investigative News Network @SEEN-BY 104/422 428 605 107/816 30163/100 150 1012/3 @PATH: 30163/150 104/422 (1:30163/150)