(KC): I'm Kerry Cassidy, and weíre here with David Icke and Bill
Ryan. And we're going to be doing what we call a Futuretalk. Itís
basically sort of a roundtable discussion in which we kind of bat around
ideas. Certainly youíre going to be the focal point, and we want to
really hear from you on whatever subjects you get sparked by in the
course of conversation.
David Icke (DI): OK. No
KC: And then weíll just kind of run with
it and see how it goes.
Bill Ryan (BR): Something
that I would like to say is that I think we get more emails, and have
done over the three years that weíve been going, asking us to interview
you, and wondering if thereís some weird reason why we
DI: And now weíre both together. Here we are.
Itís all synchronistic in the end.
BR: In the end.
KC: Absolutely. So weíre
here in Sedona, and youíre here, and it was great that we were able to
connect with you.
KC: So, where we want to go with this is, we have
whistle blowers, and Iím curious. Have you got your own sort of secret
sources that have been giving you information through the
DI: No. What happened to me is I had an
extraordinary experience, or series of experiences, in the early 1990s.
I was a television presenter and a national spokesman for the British
Suddenly I felt, over 1989, that there was a
ďpresenceĒ in the room whenever I was alone, and it became more and more
tangible as 1989 unfolded. It was bizarre, really, ícause the Green
Party in Britain had their biggest electoral year in 1989 out of
And I was going through all this whenever I
was in a room alone, like a hotel room or something. There was this
presence, you know. Eventually it got so powerful towards the end of í89
that I was sitting on the side of a bed in a hotel called the Kensington
Hilton in London, just down from the BBC
BR: I know it.
DI: ...and I
said to this apparently empty room: Look, if thereís something there,
would you please contact me, because youíre driving me up the
About two weeks later, it must have been, Iím with my son.
He was a little boy then. Heís a singer-songwriter now, in his
BR: Heís six foot four.
DI: Yes. This is
Gaz... Gareth. We were playing football, and we were going to go down
into the town and get some lunch. I lived in a seaside resort in a place
called the Isle of Wight in England. And as we got down toward this
ĎGreasy Joeí Cafe, somebody, some railway worker, stopped me and started
talking about football because I was on the television talking about
sport and stuff.
Then after this conversation was finished, I saw
that Gareth wasnít there. I knew where he would be. He would be in the
news shop just down, next to us. So I walked in and he was reading steam
train books, because he liked steam trains, like me. And I said to him:
Come on, Gareth. Weíll go and get some lunch.
And as I turned, my
feet wouldnít move. Now, this is a guy whoís not been into any of this
stuff. Heís a television presenter, national spokesman for the Green
Party, a journalist basically, and my feet wouldnít move.
heard Ė it wasnít really a voice, but a very strong thought-form passed
through my mind, which didnít seem attached to me. Why would I think it?
And it said: Go and look at the books on the far side.
So I went
over, and in among the romantic novels was this book with a womanís face
on the front. I picked it up ícause it was so different to the rest,
turned it over, saw the word psychic.
So I read this book in 24
hours and I wrote to her and went to see her. And what I told her was I
had arthritis - which I have - and maybe a hands-on healing would help.
I told her not the real reason I went, which was: Would she pick up what
the heck this presence is Iíd been feeling for nearly a year? Well,
actually, a full year by then.
I went the first couple of times Ė
and I saw her four times - and she did the hands-on healing and we had a
chat about other dimensions and stuff. It all made sense to me, because
Iíd always rejected religion and Iíd always rejected the scientific view
of reality. I just hadnít focused on: OK. Whatís the
And then the third time I went, Iím lying there on
this medical-type bench thing, and I felt like a spiderís web on my
face, which really took me aback because I had read in her book that
when other dimensions, or whatever, spirits or whatever you want to use,
are trying to lock in to you, you sometimes feel like a spiderís web on
Well, funny enough, I never had before and I never
have since, but at that moment it was seriously powerful, real tangible.
So Iím going: Oh my goodness! Whatís going on? And she is kind of doing
this by my left knee. And I never said a word to her.
suddenly she launches her head back and goes: My God! Iíve got to close
my eyes for this one. This is powerful. And she sees this figure in her
mind. She says: This figure - or whatever she called it - is asking me
to pass information to you.
Take into account, you know, Iím a
television presenter, presenting the sport and the news at the
And suddenly she starts saying that this entity, or this
projection of Consciousness, was saying that I was going to go out on a
world stage eventually and reveal great secrets. That there was a shadow
across the world that had to be lifted. That there was going to be a
spiritual revolution in my lifetime because of a vibrational
Thatís why the first book I wrote was called Truth
Vibrations, after that vibrational change. And one line was: One man
cannot change the world, but one man can communicate the message that
will change the world. I would write five books in three
Iím sitting there thinking: I know nothing about this
stuff. [laughs] Five books in three years! You must be having a laugh!
You know. This was all new to me.
I wrote five books in three
years, to the month, and I didnít realize Iíd done it until I realized
it was five and then went back. It was five books, to the month, in
three years from that time.
I went back another time, and the
next time there was some more. So I left and waited.
felt right about it, even though my mindís going: What?
Within weeks the BBC had decided they werenít going to
renew my contact, even though I was the youngest one in their
department. I was an in-by-a-mile presenter, and it would seem that I
would have had a lifetime, a working-lifetime future there.
I look back at that thought, my emotional chakra, you know, starts
vibrating wildly. The thought of being in the media all my life! Oh, my
God! When I look back... nightmare.
Anyway, so now Iím out of
work, but I feel I have to go with this. And fortunately Iíve always
lived below my income because I have a very... You know, Iím minimalist
me. Iíd rather have the money to go to India than a big house with a
mortgage on it.
Anyway. So I had enough money to keep me going
for a year. And then it all started, this synchronistic, almost-daily...
ah... this daily journey through a maze. And when I started out, it was
a thick maze. I had no idea what this was all about. I just felt I had
to go with it. I didnít even know why I had to go with it. I just had
this... Got to go with this.
And whatís happened is, itís like
some force has been opening and closing doors, so I go down this road in
a maze and not this one.
And so, coming around to answering your
question directly, I just follow, and have followed now for nearly 20
years, this pulsing, this urging, this knowing that passes through me.
So I edit my life on the basis of that: Will you go here? Donít feel to.
Will you go here? Yeah. Iíll be there.
And what has happened as
the result of just doing that is Iíve walked into people, experiences,
information, books, documents, which has taken me, when I look back, on
a very specific journey. Iíve described it before. Itís like you try to
put a jigsaw puzzle together, and some force is handing you the
KC: We feel the exact same way.
Weíve had the same experience.
DI: ...almost in the right
order that you can encompass them in the picture most
KC: Mm hm.
DI: And so, first of all, in
the early years of the í90s and through to about 1996, all the
synchronicity was about the five-sense level of this conspiracy -
banking scams, families connecting, the same people behind this, and
behind that, and behind that; whoís behind the drug networks, and all
Banking families and engineered wars. What was really
behind the Second World War, the First World War? And whatís this
network that is the guiding force of this conspiracy? All that
And then from about í96, when I came to America to talk
about this for the first time... And lots of people turned up. I talked
to eight people in Chicago, I remember that. That was what you might
call an expeditionary three months, because I was talking to myself most
of the time. But I was picking up information as I passed
What started then, from 1996 onwards, was the next stage
of this, which is these families, which Iíd learned so much about in the
years before, were actually connected to some non-human race, or
entities, for which they were basically fronting-up an agenda within
this five-sense reality. Thatís when I went into the whole reptilian
Of course, the synchronicity of my life,
and my personal journey, and my communication of information are
fundamentally connected, because a massive part of my life is, as Iíve
been learning more and more, you know, my personal journey has been
clearing out my own body computer programming so that I can access
higher and higher levels of Consciousness. Of course
everyoneís got the opportunity to do that and many people are doing it
So Iíve had great challenges in my life at the same time as
doing the information to break this up Ė break these programs up. One of
the biggest ones happened in 1991 when I started talking about what was
happening to me.
Of course, I was a well-known television
presenter in Britain, so there was monumental ridicule, of a kind that
few people can actually experience. I mean, I would walk down the street
and be laughed at by most of the people in the street for like two,
three years. A comedian only had to say my name, no joke necessary, and
get a laugh.
KC: [laughs] But can we go back to that? Because I
would love to sort of drill down and find out what... How did you
actually get into the reptilian situation?
DI: Well, yeah,
what I was just going to say... The reason I bring this up about the
synchronicity of my life is because from 1996, when I started going
through the reptilian stuff, because Iíd been through that massive
ridicule in the early 1990s, it had cleared me out of the key thing that
most people live in - the prison that most people live in - which is the
fear of what other people think. Therefore, to me, coming out from the
late í90s about the reptilian stuff was not a problem because the level
of ridicule could not be greater than what is before.
But why did you have ridicule before? Because the only ridicule I knew
was about the reptilians.
DI: Oh, no! I will tell you
another story that leads into that. Towards the end of 1990, when I had
finished the book, Truth Vibrations, and it
went off to the publisher to be published in the spring of 1991, I had
this overwhelming feeling - again, the urge, the impulse - to go to
Peru. And I had no idea why. I just had to go to Peru.
So I get
on a plane to Peru, not knowing why Iím going there, and I land in Lima
airport. From the moment I landed amazing synchronistic things happened.
But eventually I had this Peruvian guide chap who was taking me
Funnily enough, the first time I met that guy was in
Cuzco, in the old Inca region. And I went íround to his house, because
we were going off traveling around Peru from that day, and heís lying on
his back asleep. And I walked in because the door was open, and he
looked up at me and he said, not: Hello, but: Did you have any dreams
What? I said: Well, actually I did. I said: I had a
real big clear Technicolor dream that one of these two front teeth fell
out. Canít remember which one.
And he said: Is your father or
grandfather still alive?
I said: Well, my father is. Yeah. I
He said: Well, thatís usually symbolic of your father
or your grandfather dying.
I thought: Well this guyís going to be
a bunch of laughs for the next three weeks.
KC: [laughs] Wow!
DI: And when I next
got a call out of Peru, my father had died back in England. It was
KC: Oh my God.
DI: Anyway, I go around
with this guy and where it all leads, which kind of... Fundamentally it
leads to the reason behind the ridicule.
Eventually he put us in
a hotel called the Sillustani in Puno. Itís kind of southern Peru, not
far from Lake Titicaca. The Sillustani Hotel was named after an Inca
ruin site about an hour, hour-and-a-halfís drive away. So thereís
pictures of this place all over the hotel, of the ruins. And I said to
the guy: I want to go there.
So we go out. I think he did a deal
to get some money out of me because I go out in like a little tourist
bus with windows on the side, with a tourist bus driver, and the guide
and me. Nobody else. [Bill laughs]
We go out to this place, and
itís in the middle of nowhere. Basically when you looked around, it was
encircled by mountains - in the distance, mind. And I go there. The only
people there are a couple of children with llamas for tourist
photographs, but there were no tourists.
So I walk around for
about an hour, and itís very nice. Itís on a hill with a lagoon on three
sides. I go back to the car. And Iím... it was nice, but it didnít match
the urge I had to go there.
So I get into the van thing and we
start to drive away. And Iím looking out the window, day-dreaming, and I
see this mound to my right. It must have been no more than three minutes
down the road. And as I look at the mound, all I can hear in my head is:
Come to me. Come to me. Come to me. Come to me. What? Iím really new to
this stuff. I mean: Whatís going on with my life?
So I said to
the guide: Can you stop the van? - the bus thing. Iím going up the
mound. So I went up the mound. I couldnít see it from the road, but when
I got to the top, there was a circle of standing stones about
waist-high. These stones had obviously been there a very, very long
So I walk into the middle of this circle, and Iím looking
across to Sillustani, and across to the distant mountains, and itís a
piercing-hot Peruvian day. No clouds, not a cloud in the sky. Very much
like this one today.
I walked to the center of the circle, and
suddenly my feet go again, like they did in the news shop, but only
seriously more powerful. Thereíre like magnets pulling my feet to the
ground. And I think: Oh crikey. I recognize that. Here we go.
then I felt like a drill going in the top of my head and through my
body, through my feet, into the ground. And then another one coming the
And then my arms go out at 45 degrees like that. I
never made any decision to do it. And of course, you hold your arms out
there for a minute, it starts to ache, or my shoulders do anyway. It was
the best part of an hour... it must be 45 minutes to an hour my arms
were like that. When it was over, my shoulders were agony, but when it
was going on, nothing.
What then started to happen is this energy
coming through me. This is February 1991. It got more and more powerful.
My body started to shake with it, and I had two very powerful
thought-forms pass through my head, just like in the news
The first one said: Theyíll be talking about this 100 years
from now. And Iím thinking: Talking about what?
And the other one
was: It will be over when you feel the rain. Iíve just described what
the weather was like. ďIt will be over when you feel the rainĒ? I mean,
youíre having a laugh, mate.
So what happened then, for the next
45 minutes - because time disappeared; there was no time; I worked it
out later Ė was that this energy just kept coming through me. And I kept
going in and out of, if you like, awareness, consciousness, like driving
a car and you go: Crikey. Where did the last two miles go?
these times when I came back to kind of awareness, I noticed that over
the distant mountains there was a light gray mist. And kind of as I
watched it, it got darker and darker very quickly, and I realized it was
pouring rain on the distant mountains.
Over the next little
while, however long it was, I watched this storm come out of the
mountains. Weather people talk about, you know, a ďweather frontĒ. Well,
this was a straight line. The cloud was a straight line. Iíve described
it many times. It was like drawing the curtains across the
This thingís coming towards me, and as it got closer, the
sunís gone. Itís been covered. All the clouds are billowing and Iím
seeing faces in the clouds. It didnít make sense to me, but I saw faces
in the clouds.
And then itís a wall of rain. Iím watching it
coming towards me. By this time Iím hanging on, you know, with this
energy coming through me. Eventually it hits me - torrential rain - and
everything stopped. Thatís when I staggered forward and my shoulders
were agony and all the rest of it.
Many other things happened,
but when I came back to England after that... As I said earlier, my book
was published in the early part of 1991, which is a matter of a very
short time after this experience.
When I look back now, it was
like... You know, if youíve got a dam and itís holding water back, the
water is calm - right? - because thatís its natural state in that
situation, if you like. But when the dam bursts, before a new balance is
found after the damn bursts, all hell breaks loose in the water - right?
- as itís trying to go from one state to another.
DI: When I look back, what
happened to me on that mound, it was like the waters of my mind
bursting, and for three months I didnít know what planet I was on.
In the middle of this, my book came out, and I went on the
biggest live-chat show in Britain at the time - it was called the Wogan
Show - in a complete bloody daze about what was happening to me. It had
all been in the national papers that basically I had gone
And I was sitting in this chair in the chat show and the
audience was laughing within a minute, two minutes. And they basically
laughed for... I think I must have been on about fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen minutes, and from that moment on, because I was talking about
what was happening to me, except I didnít understand what was happening
to me, and what that did was trigger the most extraordinary levels of
ridicule. And... ah... it cleared me out of that fear of what other
But I learned so much about human behavior, I
remember, because what youíre supposed to do when you face that scale of
ridicule is run and hide. Right?
BR: That is one of the means thatís used to control
DI: Yeah. So what I did is, I went on a university
speaking tour [Kerry laughs] in front of all these students who had not
come to listen. Theyíd come to laugh. Right?
KC: My understanding is that what you had is a
kundalini experience. Do you relate to it like that or do you call it
DI: I donít care.
KC: But have you investigated or has anyone talked to
you about that?
DI: No. No. I mean, Iíve talked to people
about kundalini experience, and maybe it was. See, what I do - I can
only talk for myself Ė is: What is, is. You know?
One of the
things that was said to me by the psychic, or through the psychic in
1990 when all this started for me was, theyíre saying: You will face
enormous opposition but they will always be there to protect
Now, I donít know who they are. Iíve hardly even thought
about who they are, because when I leave this genetic spacesuit, I will
know who they are. All I do is I go with my intuition.
happened to me in 1991, with the great ridicule, was, as life so often
does, it gave me my greatest gift brilliantly disguised as my worst
nightmare, because thatís what it was at the time and in the
experiencing of it.
So what actually happened to me is, something
transformed my sense of perception and thatís good enough for me. I
donít really have to know the detail of what happened. But a kundalini
experience? It could well have been. Yeah.
BR: And in the meantime itís got something to do with
tempering the steel.
DI: Say again?
BR: Tempering the steel.
the steel... Yeah. Because as I keep coming back to... my personal
journey and what Iím doing in terms of communicating information
absolutely are One.
I was going to say what happened to me when I
went out on that university speaking tour. It was the University of
Nottingham. There were a thousand people there. I would say 950 had come
to laugh. I walked out on the stage, and it was literally the best part
of fifteen minutes before I could speak, because it was just abuse,
ridicule, laughter, plastic beer glasses thrown at the stage.
just stood there and waited for it to die down, because it had to
eventually, and when it did, I said: You think Iím mentally ill, donít
you? And you know what itís like: [imitates raucous audience response]
Wellll yuuh... [and other rude vocalizations].
And I said: So
what does that say about you? Because youíve actually paid to come here
to ridicule someone you actually believe is mentally ill. [Kerry laughs]
I tell you what, you could hear a pin drop. And you could hear a pin
drop for the rest of the night.
To do what Iíve done in terms of
talking about some really bizarre things, you know, my name still only
has to be mentioned in a national newspaper in Britain and itís like
complete ridicule, whatever Iím saying.
BR: Itís toned down a bit.
DI: A little
bit, but not very much. I mean, I stood for election in a parliamentary
bi-election in July last year, July 2008 - not to get elected - I knew I
wouldnít get any votes; I didnít want any votes. I mean, I must be the
first parliamentary candidate ever to put out a leaflet to everyone in
the constituency saying: I donít want your votes, just your brief
attention. Goodness me, I didnít want to get involved in that! But,
again, it was a great experience and I learned a lot from it.
the media coverage was... I did a media presentation for the national
press which was about, I donít know, 50 minutes, PowerPoint pictures and
stuff, in which I talked about the five-sense level of it. Because
anything else, I mean, even that blew their bloody minds. Anything else,
reptilians... I mean, crikey.
What they did is they just went
away and just abused me, and abused it, and ridiculed me. And
ironically, the one that did the most abuse... One of the things I said
was coming, actually about six weeks later, was actually the front page
story in his own newspaper. I mean, itís bizarre. These people have
total cognitive dissonance so that they canít put these two things
So itís still there, but it doesnít matter, you know.
Weíre in a situation where, thanks to the Internet, we can bypass these
sad people that work with their concrete minds in the mainstream
BR: And you donít have to reach everybody, just enough
people. Itís The Hundredth Monkey principle.
Iíll tell you what I feel more and more, you know. I mean... Look, I can
feel it when I speak, anyone speaks. Itís a vibrational communication.
Thereís silence between you and me. Thereís silence when you speak to me
until my brainís decoded it.
What it is, is vibrational
communication. And I feel very strongly that itís not just the people
that hear this information, itís the fact that this informationís
If you do an interview for a radio station, 100,000
people might listen to it. But that broadcast frequency carrying that
information is passing through the ether, if you like, and is there to
be potentially picked up by people who donít even listen to the radio
interview. It touches them on a vibrational level, and, you
KC: I think thatís right. Youíre talking about The
Butterfly Effect, in essence.
KC: It multiples. Thatís actually a very good way to
put it. You know, on a subliminal level... because we exist on so many
DI: Mm hm. Exactly.
KC: Itís like waves. Itís actually... itís hitting
them. And thereís the line that Iíve been quoting lately that says, you
know: We learn by osmosis just as much as by word. It actually permeates
just by osmosis.
KC: Into our skin. Into our brain.
KC: Weíre receivers.
DI: Exactly. Weíre
receiver / transmitters. Thatís what we are. But people think that the
only form of communication is voice-to-ear.
Iíll tell you a funny
story. In 2003 I was in the rain forest of Brazil and I took this
ayahuasca psychoactive drug. Somebody didnít tell me I was taking a
psychoactive drug, but Iím glad I did, though. It was fantastic. A lot
of people have bad experience, but...
This female voice talked to
me as loud as mine is now for five hours about how reality, physical
reality, is an illusion. Absolutely riveting stuff. Very, very funny. I
mean, my feet were the air a couple of times, it was so funny what was
And as the voice was telling me things, I saw
pictures that obviously were being projected. There was one where I
walked out on a stage and there was an audience. I just saw the front of
the audience here and this voice said: You only speak words to keep the
mind happy, basically to keep the brain happy.
as this voice was saying this, I saw two women in the front row of this
scene that had been projected to me, and Iíd walked out to the front of
the stage and Iíd just stood there, and just said nothing Ė Silence. And
after a while this one woman nudges the other one like that and goes,
basically: Whatís he doing?
And the voice... it was so funny what
it said because it came out of nowhere. The voice said; You only speak
because if you did not, the audience would be asking when the f??? is he
going to start? [laughs]
That actually carries a profound kind of
understanding, because the real communication between all of us is
DI: And this is very
good news. And this is what I would impress upon people. The more you
speak your truth - even if people are not listening - youíre changing,
or offering, a vibrational field which other people can tune
You know, when I look at the speed at which people are
awakening, itís not just because of information on the Internet. Itís
not just because of information in my books or someone elseís
There is something massive going on, vibrationally, which
fits totally with what I got through that psychic in 1990, which was:
There is a spiritual revolution coming and itís taking the form of a
I can see it. In 1990 - no evidence. Now? I
mean, please. You can see it. I had people come up to me in LA when I
spoke there recently, saying: I was absolutely a part of the system
until three months ago.
DI: I read one of your books
and suddenly Iím just totally different.
Now, itís not just
because they read one of my books. If you start tuning in to this
vibrational change, then bang! Things can happen real, real quick. And,
personally, I find it such a good thing that, from my experience, I went
through all that... that nightmare experience in the early 1990s when I
started to awake, not knowing what the hell was
Because now you can explain to people that if you have
an energetic construct here - which was you believing everything was
real, and the system was serving you, and this is the cutting edge of
human evolution, and all this nonsense - that vibrational field is
vibrating your state of being out[ward], and it will draw to you people,
places, ways of life, experiences, etcetera, locations, which fit your
inner self because the outer self is a projection of the inner
So when you start to transform - this is what happened to
me, but I mean it happens to everybody - to another state of being which
then draws to you a very different group of people, places, locations,
ways of life, etcetera, there is a transition between the two. It
doesnít go: One gone! íEre you go! [Kerry laughs]
This one has to
break down as this one emerges. Itís a process of one losing power over
your reality, another one gaining power. It can happen very quickly, but
itís not like instant.
KC: Thatís actually a very great metaphor for whatís
going on in the macrocosm of the planet.
KC: And in the United States in particular, but
certainly England. You know, all over. We can see it here. I mean,
whatís happening here with the economic downturn and with people losing
their houses, their shells, if you will. It changes their
DI: I couldnít agree more.
KC: And the more you resist, I think, the more
destruction is going to happen. The less you resist, the quicker the
destructive phase is over and you can actually start climbing back
KC: In your case, you were quite extraordinary in the
sense that you had this radical change in your life. You went, you know,
from black to white almost. There was almost no downtime for you, it
sounds like, although you said for three months...
Three months was the big downtime.
KC: But thatís extraordinarily quick, especially in
the í90s. Today, I think this is happening to people and they are going
through a quicker transition. And in some ways thereís also a reason for
that, because you and people like you have made it easier for those that
are following now to go through the changes.
DI: I hope
KC: Breaking through a veil.
DI: I hope
so. I mean, I get such satisfaction when people say that they were
helped in understanding what was going on. And youíre absolutely right.
I mean, I talk about this a lot now because between that - the old self
and all that it projects in what we call the physical experience, and
the new self which projects something else - there is apparent
Relationships breakdown, you lose your job, you can lose
your house, and all this stuff, and if you live that as a physical,
I-am-a-human-body experience, then itís very, very
If you say: Look, this is where I want to go, and
you realize that this is the transition to get there, then you can
encompass the unpleasant experiences as just that - an experience -
which youíre going through to get to somewhere. And quite right. The
Thereís so many levels to this, you know. People
say to me sometimes: Tell me whatís going on. I say: Well, first of all,
Iím not the guru, but if you want to know what I think is going on, my
question is: What level of whatís going on do you want to talk about?
Because thereís so many ways to observe the same thing.
So on one
level, these Illuminati bloodlines have crashed the global economic
system because they want to have that as a problem to which they can
offer a solution, which is a fiercely Orwellian, Fascist, centralized
But on another level, I would suggest, well
beyond their level of comprehension - because theyíre stuck in their own
box, otherwise they wouldnít be doing what theyíre doing - we are
witnessing the transition from the Prison Society to the Paradise
Society, if you like, or the Freedom Society.
And to go from the
system weíve had, which is based on control and imposition, to the
system that weíre heading towards - which is what vibrational change is
all about - this has gotta go and itís now going.
people... And itís easy to say this. Itís easy to say these apparently
trite things when, you know, you got a knock on your door saying youíre
leaving your house today. But if we can hold this level of seeing it, it
makes it easier.
Weíre going through this process where itís all
breaking down. And if we can encompass it as what it is, which is a
collective experience to get to where weíd like to go - a world of
freedom, a world of kindness, a world of love, a world of freedom to
express your uniqueness rather than be imprisoned in your tiny version
and false identity of what you are told you are - then itís much easier
than if you seek to cling to the wreckage of the dying system and hold
KC: Right. In some ways, you were something of a
pioneer, where you had to go it alone.
BR: I imagine you
must have much more support now from everywhere, just in the way that
Kerry is describing, than you did when you really felt you were alone
going down the rapids.
DI: Yes. Itís funny, though,
because... I mean there are so many things Iíd like to talk about that
you just brought up, because I think itís very, very important.
wouldnít say Iím a loner, but my connection has always been to that
which is driving me and opening doors and pushing me in this direction,
and I just follow that. So, although I was alone in so many ways when it
all happened, I still had that connection. And I still have that
And people are very kind and very supportive, but
I still basically just operate in my own little bubble and just go my
own way. I donít deal with organizations. I donít connect with other
researchers or anything like that. I just follow this impulse. But it is
easier because thereís more people that are open to what youíre saying.
But, you know, what youíve just brought up is very, very important
You know, for me, if not the greatest human disease of all
because everything comes out of it, I guess, is insecurity. Ironically
it was at the height of mass national ridicule that I found my security.
Because thereís that line in that song, I think it was in the í60s:
Freedomís just another word for nothing left to
BR: And you have to look
inside for your security. Youíre not going to get it from anywhere else
DI: Yeah. I mean, you look at my situation in
regard to that line from that song in the early í90s, early-mid-í90s, I
was being ridiculed by a nation, so I had nothing left to lose. And
thatís when I found freedom, the freedom to break out of the prisons of
fearing what other people think. And basically I was: Laugh! Laugh, but
this is me.
You know, I saw a great car
BR: I am me, and I am free.
DI: I saw a
great car sticker in California - it would be California - and it said:
You laugh at me because Iím different. I laugh at you because youíre all
the same. [Kerry laughs]
I donít laugh at people because theyíre
all the same, but it is ironic when this herd mentality is kind of
focusing on one person, as it was in Britain at that time. And you look
at them and you think: Youíre laughing at me? My God!
And so, this economic thing thatís going... and, you
know, Iíve been describing it recently as like a controlled demolition
of a building. You see the charges go off, and then thereís a bizarre
split-second before the building goes, and then it collapses. Well, in
the economic terms of this crash, we are in that bizarre split-second
been describing the economic situation weíre in recently as like a
controlled demolition, where you see the charges go off and you know
thereís a problem. But then thereís a bizarre split-second before the
building actually crashes. I would say that we are in, and getting very,
very closer to the edge of by the day, that bizarre
Weíve seen nothing yet. I mean, this is a crash
that no one alive today will have seen. It could be compared with the
1930s, but because of the way the world is, and thereís more people, and
the nature of home ownership and all the rest of it, I think itís going
to be bigger.
BR: So people with gardens and independent means of
doing anything at all will be much more
DI: Thatís the idea. Youíre absolutely
right. Absolutely. And so we now face this very situation youíre talking
about, where we need to reevaluate our... and it would have been a good
idea to do it anyway...
KC: Yes. [laughs]
DI: ...our symbols of
DI: Now, because insecurity
is rampant in people and society, both individually and collectively,
and on the level of governments and media and all the rest of it, are
constantly getting people to feel insecure, most people do not get their
sense of who they are from in-here. They get it from what they think is
out-there. See? Itís in their heads.
DI: Therefore, if you
are going to attract to you the recognition you want that youíre an OK
person, to feed your insecurity, you have to succeed out-there on the
basis of the symbols of success that out-there recognizes as success.
And of course through the media and indoctrination from cradle to grave,
itís more money, bigger house, bigger car, fame, all this stuff, titles,
and all this business.
BR: He who dies with the most toys
DI: Yeah. So what youíve got is, the insecurity
itself is - to kind of feed some acknowledgment to lessen its insecurity
- itís chasing these symbols of success that society has decided is
And we forget other symbols of success: Am I happy?
Am I fulfilled? You know. Do I live in a society, a kind, loving society
that Iíd like to live in?
All this goes by the board because the
other thing about needing to succeed on this manufactured basis, to feed
this, is that you then have to compete with all the other people that
are trying to succeed in the same way to feed their
DI: And that creates this
ďDog eat dog / Top of the greasy poleĒ society, where everyoneís walking
over everyone else - not everyone, but vast numbers of people are
walking over everyone else so that theyíre the ones on the top of the
pile that get their insecurity fed most profoundly with the symbols of
This insecurity is why you find some of the most
insecure people youíll ever meet in places like Hollywood and in the
entertainment industry because their insecurity is such... And theyíre
not all like this. There are very secure people who just play music and
like to act, but thereís a lot of insecure people because they need that
extra adulation to feed their insecurity.
And so, if we can move
our point of observation from I am this body that I see in the mirror in
the morning. I am David Icke. I am Charlie Smith, Ethel Jones, whatever,
to I am Consciousness having an experience, then your values of what is
successful change because your point of observation of everything
Itís the mind working through the body that deals in
status and symbols of success that are How high is your pile of
trinkets? Whereas, Consciousness doesnít deal in trinkets. It knows
theyíre illusory. And, of course, when you deal in trinkets like that,
itís the trinkets controlling you; youíre not controlling the trinkets.
BR: Of course.
DI: And so, for me, the
whole foundation, both of coming through this crash to something much
better as the result of it, and the whole transformation in general, is
moving out of Mind and into what I call Consciousness, which is that
beyond this virtual reality game, beyond this biological computer we
call the body.
And you can start to see the difference because
Mind deals in structure. It deals in hierarchy, and it deals in
apartness. It sees everything as apart.
BR: And polarization.
DI: Yeah. And if
thatís what you are, if thatís the way youíre seeing life, in terms of
hierarchal structures, apartness, and competition, and all this stuff,
youíre in Mind. Ironically, the religions are in Mind. Theyíre all Mind
constructs, the religions. Thatís why they have rules and
BR: Of course.
DI: Thatís another
massive red light. Hey! Mind! And thatís rules and regulation and
KC: And limitations.
DI: Limitation, a
sense of limitation. So, if we can change our point of observation so we
cease to see ourselves vitally and the world we think weíre living in,
in those terms, and look at it from a point of view of
I said earlier that this force thatís been kind
of pushing me through my last 20 years took me through synchronistic
experiences to understand the five-sense level of the conspiracy, then
moved into the interdimensional connection
and the reptilian connection to
And since 2003 itís taken me into what I know is
by far the most important and that is understanding the nature of
reality. Because, you know, how can you get a grasp of your own life and
take any kind of control of your own experience, if you donít know who
you are, where you are, or the nature of the world youíre living
This information, for me, is by far the most important
because it moves the point of experience from in-this-world to
observing-this-world, or a mixture of the two, and that...
youíre in-this-world and youíre of-this-world, then whatís coming is
going to be a bloody nightmare. If you become the observer as well as
the experiencer by becoming more conscious, then itís much easier.
Because thatís not you, thatís your experience which you are observing
KC: Absolutely. This is something that... George Green says that
he was in contact with the Plejarans and that they helped write a book
through him that says that exact thing, that you need to stay in the
KC: And observe whatís going on and not get caught up
in the experience in such a way that actually, as you said, you become
of-this-world instead of in-it-but-not-of-it.
And what Iíve found, as Iím talking more and more about the reality we
live in, is it does, if you like, take the edge off the fear of whatís
Because it is funny, really. I think that when we find
out everything thatís going on and the nature of what weíre experiencing
and whatís behind it, I think weíre going to laugh for weeks. I do. I
think weíre going to laugh for weeks. And we thought it was THAT? Oh, my
The whole thrust of the maze and opening and closing doors
since 2003, for me, and itís getting more and more deep, and deeper and
deeper, is: What is reality? Who are we, what weíre doing here? And how
do we interact with it?
And itís very clear to me that this is a
virtual reality universe of enormous advancement compared with what we
perceive to be virtual reality simulations in this world. And, you know,
this is not just supposition. This is provable scientific
BR: Yes. I mean itís so good that we think itís real.
DI: Yeah. You know, the five senses just decode
vibrational information into electrical signals, send it to the brain, and the brain
decodes it into this construct that we think is outside-there but itís
The only place this world exists, a so-called
solid world, a three dimensional world, is out-there, we think. But
actually it doesnít exist out-there. Out-there is just vibrational
fields. It exists in-here as we construct it. And even the brain is a
decoded construct, as well. Itís on an energetic level that we do the
This is very, very important because what the
manipulators do, because theyíve hoarded this basic knowledge and passed
it over at the highest level of the secret society network and sucked it
out of public circulation.
KC: Thatís right.
DI: They know that if we look out-there for answers,
believing that there is an out-there, instead of an illusory projection
thatís going on in-here, then weíre never going to change
DI: Never! Weíre never going to
change anything, And once you go: Ah! Thereís no out-there, so whereís
it coming from? Oh! Itís coming from in-here, so this is where I have to
change. Oh! There you go!
Itís what I call - and this is what
most people do because of the suppression of this understanding - is
they stand in the movie theater and they shout at the screen because
they donít like the movie.
KC: Uh huh.
DI: And people say: Youíre
crazy. Youíre never going to change the movie shouting at the screen. Go
find the projection room. Change the reel if you donít like the
And the projection is deep within us, you know. Some
research I saw recently says that only about 5% of behavior and
decisions that we make are with the conscious mind. I would actually say
thatís not true, personally. Iíd say 100% of what happens in this
three-dimensional realityís only in our head - actually is a
The conscious mind is actually not the decision-maker
at all. Itís the observer and experiencer of it, and it literally is the
same principle as a movie projector which comes from within, within what
we call the subconscious, where all those patterns of air which weíre
being influenced by and are affecting our projection and our reading of
it. And it comes out of the subconscious. By the time it hits the screen
in-here, symbolically on the movie theater, itís a done
This is where the change has to take place - within us - to
change the projection which is our conscious mindís experience. People
are so caught in the conscious mind as thatís the only level.
mean, you hear them talk about subconscious and all that stuff, but
really itís: I thought it. Well, how come experiments have shown that
the electrical changes and muscular changes to make an action happen,
happen a split-second before the conscious mind has decided to do
Itís because theyíre playing it out. And so, this talk about
We must go within, this New Age ďmust go withinĒ - and thereís much
about the New Age I would challenge - but this basic theme is absolutely
right, I would say.
And what the whole conspiracyís trying to do
is get us to look out-there. Letís go and protest. Letís go and do this.
Letís go and do that. And you protest and you have a million people on
the streets of London protesting against war. And what happens? The war
goes on, and then they start another bugger.
BR: Itís just more dialectic.
We need to change the projection.
KC: This is actually something that weíve come around
to, and weíre aware that Consciousness is where the change has to
happen. And then Consciousness is also where you have to apply the
change in your vision of reality.
You canít actually just stop
there. It actually has to permeate everything. So it needs to be
embodied in this body, but we have to talk about whoís in control. So if
Consciousness is in control and I can use this to do, for example, what
weíre doing here, which can be used to further change, and push the
change, and help the change, then this is a good thing.
not enough, in other words, just go to in like Buddha and simply sit in
your mind and do nothing. Because doing nothing is also not the
We actually came here with a purpose. A game is being
played out here and if you stay in the Consciousness and youíre able to
change your inner self and then mirror it outside, and facilitate, which
is what youíre doing, obviously. And obviously you embody this in your
life. And what weíve been doing with Camelot is weíre also talking
about... You canít actually demonstrate in the streets and get real
results because itís really, you know, action / reaction. Itís really
DI: Exactly. I agree.
KC: But you can join minds and meditate. There are
places for action that are actually really proactive and can change the
world in a positive way. Itís a very interesting dilemma for people that
they have to actually embody the change that they seek, and live it. You
know, you cannot be a contradiction to whatís inside. It doesnít work.
There has to be a through-line.
DI: Well, I would put it
this way. I would say that, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, that this
reality, this holographic, illusory, physical construct which we put
together in our heads is like a holographic Internet, I call it. That is
100% a projection and by the time it hits the screen, itís a done deal
in our experience.
But a lot of people Iíve come across and
heard, they do think that if you just sit and meditate or just go
within, then thatís all you need to do. But this is a projection and
itís a projection from somewhere. So this projection is an open book of
the inner-us, individually and collectively. So what we play out in this
experience says everything about our state of being.
You can say
Go within, and you can use it as an excuse to not go without and
you can go within and meditate. OK. So whatís happening in the
projection as the result of what youíre doing? The only projection that
youíre affecting is you sitting cross-legged in the corner. What else is
Yes of course you can change things vibrationally, to
an extent, but what is happening in the world is saying whatís happening
in us, and weíve kind of missed that connection. So, if weíre doing
nothing to make a contribution to the kind of world weíd like to live
in, in the physical world, then that says something about the state of
us within. But weíre not doing that.
DI: And I see so many excuses
being made by people who have become to a certain extent aware of some
of whatís going on, so that they can justify to themselves why theyíre
doing nothing. People say to me: You donít tell us what to
And I say: Well, actually, I talk about becoming conscious
and all that stuff. I think, you know, thatís a start. But, it ainít for
me to tell you what to do. And if you think that I have to tell you what
to do, then youíre not listening, because this is about taking power
back to the point where we project, rather than looking out-here at a
BR: Thereís an active
paradox here, isnít there? Because thatís not the whole story. Otherwise
youíd be sitting in the corner smiling and not talking to us here, and
not working as hard as you do, and not talking to people to help the
process of waking them up so that they can then join you in this
understanding, which we share with you also.
Itís important, in a
sense, to pretend that all this is real, because this is the platform
from which we can waken ourselves up and rejoin Consciousness again. And
so itís a paradox. It goes on at both levels. What you say is true, and
this all is an illusion, and it all doesnít matter. But itís all
important enough for us to be talking about it.
KC: What I
was saying is, in your presentation where youíre talking about
Consciousness and the Mind and the problems with staying just in Mind...
Thereís a lot of brilliant people out there coming to brilliant
conclusions. And yet they canít live it. You see? The manifestation
doesnít go anywhere.
DI: Yeah. It becomes an intellectual,
academic kind of point of observation rather than Consciousness, which
is something that just is.
The difference that I am now
increasingly making is between Mind and Consciousness. And I would go
further and say that we talk about ďmy mind, your mind, his mind, her
mindĒ. I donít see it like that. I talk about The Mind.
is a construct of the virtual reality universe which allows us -
Consciousness - to interconnect with this virtual reality. Itís like a
conduit. And thereís absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever if it
serves the experience of Consciousness, and serves our ability to
interact with this virtual reality universe.
What has happened -
and I would strongly suggest itís been manipulated to happen, not least
by these families and other levels of manipulation - is we have been
manipulated into a false identity which is identifying who we are with
Mind, which operates directly through the body, and calls itself ďDavid
IckeĒ, ďEthel JonesĒ, ďCharlie Smith,Ē that looks in the mirror and
thinks thatís who it is.
Basically, you know, this is a
biological computer. Itís not a computer that just reacts to the way
itís programmed to react to data input. It has the ability to - they
call them living computers - biological computers. Theyíre trying to
build them now in different parts of the world. It has the ability to
assess information and make decisions on it. In other words, to quite a
large extent it has the ability to think.
What happens is, if we
get caught in Mind and self-identity or ďThat reflection in the mirror
is meĒ, and not just my experience, then Mind starts to govern our sense
of reality. And Mind is about division, apartness, hierarchy, rules,
regulations, laws, limitation.
And, you know, you can have
someone in the New Age arena who talks about spirituality, talks about
other dimensions Ė which are other virtual reality games, I would
suggest - other levels, but blatantly is stuck in Mind and the values of
I mean, I hear New Age people talk about
the Great White Brotherhood and
the hierarchy of the angels, and stuff. Thatís Mind
BR: Of course it is.
doesnít do hierarchy. It just is. All possibility. All that
DI: And so, the same
mind-construct, The Mind, can entrap a New Ager as it entraps in
another part of The Mind a Wall Street banker.
BR: Yeah. It is just another religion. Itís another
DI: Yeah! Thatís the thing, you know. I was
talking to... on an interview yesterday, and we got into some
interesting areas. He asked me about religion. Well, religion and the
political party, and the New Age, and all these things that we donít
call ďreligionsĒ Ė institutions - theyíre all the same
Consciousness just is. Consciousness doesnít think. Consciousness knows.
Thatís why Consciousness is silent when we access it, because itís got
nothing to work out.
The Mind is where the chatter comes from
because itís constantly trying to work things out. [makes chattering
sounds] What about yesterday? Whatíd she say about me? [more chattering
Silence - Consciousness. So, to hold you in Mind, and
this conspiracy is about holding the population in Mind because then
DI: ...because thatís
their stadium Ė Mind. Theyíre stuck in Mind. If they were conscious,
they wouldnít do what theyíre doing. To hold us in Mind, they have to
sell us something to rigidly believe in.
So, religions ...
brilliant example of rigid belief. And what is it? Once you rigidly
believe something, you then call it a name.
What are you? You
donít say: Iím Consciousness. How many people say: Hello. Who are you?
Iím Consciousness. Oh, so am I. Nice to meet you.
No-no. What we
are is what we do: Iím a journalist. I work in a factory. What are you?
Iím a Hindu. Iím a Christian.
These are mind-constructs. These
are mind-prisons that limit our sense of self. So once you have a rigid
belief, then you give it a name.
Now, I have a simple philosophy
about all this: If you can tell me what you believe and give it a name,
youíre in a prison. Because everything just is. We all just are. Itís
ďThe Force with No NameĒ, I call it - Consciousness.
And so you
create religion and then after the name, then comes the rules and
regulations - this is how the construct goes - of what you have to
conform to if you are going to be allowed to call yourself whatever name
thatís been come up with. Youíre not a Christian if you believe that.
And all this stuff.
Then you look at political parties. You have
a group of people. They get together and they want to do something
politically. So they give what theyíre doing a name: Democrats,
Republicans, Labor Party, Conservative Party, whatever. So thereís the
Now come the rules and regulations that decide if you can
call yourself one or the other. You canít believe that and be a
Conservative. You canít believe that and be a Liberal. Itís the same
construct, wherever you look.
DI: And then the belief
system... As research has shown, rigid beliefs, the neurons fire off in
a certain network and sequence, in line with the belief, because what
the brainís doing is then filtering, decoding reality and circumstance
through the belief system, which manifests in the brain as the way the
neurons fire off.
And suddenly, instead of being free-thinking,
or even better, free-knowing - conscious - you are operating in a tiny
little box. And that box is basically the way your... Not basically. It
is the way your brain decodes reality.
So once youíre into
belief, a rigid belief, then they gotcha. And thatís why they want to
sell you rigid beliefs.
BR: Thereís an active paradox here, isnít
there? Because thatís not the whole story. Otherwise, youíd be sitting
in the corner smiling and not talking to us here, and not working as
hard as you do, and not talking to people to help the process of waking
them up so that they can then join you in this understanding, which we
share with you also.
Itís important, in a sense, to pretend that
all this is real because this is the platform from which we can waken
ourselves up and rejoin consciousness again. And so, itís a paradox. It
goes on at both levels. What you say is true, and this all is an
illusion, and it all doesnít matter. BUT itís all important enough for
us to be talking about it.
DI: It matches, Bill, in the
sense that... Do we want to experience a reality thatís very, very
unpleasant, and controlling, and limiting, and frightening, and
Or do we want to experience a reality that is loving,
kind; where no-one goes hungry in a world of plenty; where there is no
war because no-one would even consider the idea that it was a
possibility or an option?
Thatís the choice weíre making. Weíre
always Consciousness, and when we leave the body weíll become at least
much more aware of everything than we are now.
So weíre always
conscious. Weíre all eternal Consciousness. But the question is: What
kind of experience do we want here?
DI: You know, thatís the
KC: We call it, What kind of game do you want to
KC: We have a chance now, because we are
Consciousness, to change the rules of the game, to make it something
different than it is. Change inside, but letís also agree, because
thatís whatís happening. Thatís what a Consciousness revolution has to
Itís not good enough for you, David Icke, to have got
it. Itís not good enough for us to have got it. What we need is for
everyone to get it, to tune this game here on this plane, because thatís
what itís really about.
In other words, Consciousness... and this
is where it gets into What is Consciousness? Itís love. And what is
love? Itís actually the awareness of all of us.
Well, I would say everything is Consciousness. Mind is Consciousness,
but itís a much denser expression of Consciousness, and thatís why it
sees everything in terms of limitation.
And as people become
conscious, it can - to use the term of a friend of mine in South Africa
- Consciousness can ďconscientizeĒ Mind and bring its awareness out of
the level that it currently perceives reality.
But I do think
itís important that, if weíre going to play this game successfully, that
we understand where the gameís being played. Itís not being played
See, what the five senses are doing, like I said
earlier, is that theyíre decoding vibrational information, turning it
into electric signals. The brain then constructs this apparent reality out-there,
which actually is only in-here.
So the prime reality is
vibrational. Thatís the prime reality. Thatís where the change has to
take place, because as the change takes place there, the five senses
decode different vibrational states into electrical
BR: Thereís that wonderful story told by Michael
Talbot in The Holographic Universe.
BR: And I read that page over and over again when I
first saw that book in the late 1980s. This is the story about the stage
hypnotist who hypnotized the father to believe that his daughter was
invisible. And then he was able to read an inscription on the watch held
behind her body, because for him she was no longer there, and reality
had changed. It was physically different in his mind.
Well, this is the whole point, you see. For a hypnotist to put a watch
behind someoneís back and someone the other side of it read it, thatís
perceived to be impossible. But itís only impossible if you believe this
world to be solid and real and out-there.
The reason it could
happen is because the prime reality - and I canít emphasize this more -
the prime reality that is playing out here is vibrational. That has to
change or this canít change.
And so, if the hypnotist, as he did,
implanted the program into the guyís brain not to decode the vibrational
level, the prime level, of his daughter through this system into a
holographic, so-called physical form that we see, then he would decode
all the other vibrational fields in the room into people and walls and
But because itís like a computer being fire-walled
off, he doesnít decode the daughterís prime state - your prime state,
our prime state, the prime state of everything, this vibrational level -
into the holographic, apparently out-there reality.
And so she
doesnít exist in his head as a holographic form, i.e, supposedly
physical, so he canít see her. Because sheís not there, he can see
whatís behind her. Therefore he can read a watch even though sheís
standing there to everyone else in the room. They can see her. Why?
Because their brain has not been programmed not to read that energy
field into a holographic form.
Now, just as a quick aside, how
many things, collectively, are we not reading that are there to be
KC: Well, one of the things is thereís more than five
senses. OK? And the heart is... Itís not just the mind. Itís actually
the heart. Itís really the heart and the intelligence of the heart that
you can see through if weíd only use that. So itís more
In other words, these are tools for us. Our mind is a
tool. Our heart is a tool. But you canít stay up here. [gesturing to
head] Youíve actually gotta go through the heart to really see. See, we
donít see with our eyes. Thatís actually... thatís a construct. Thatís a
DI: Yeah. We see with our
KC: We actually see with our heart more than anything
else and through the heart. And so what happens is, itís a union between
the mind and the heart...
KC: ... that allows you to see. And you could put
yourself in that manís position and say: How could the man see through
the implant that was put into his brain?
First of all, what did
he do? He had to accept the magicianís, you know, implant, to begin
with. So in the same way, we in society are accepting the implant,
whether itís television or whatever, which is blocking our real view of
reality. Weíre accepting it.
DI: Yeah. I mean, the thing
is though, that what the hypnotist was doing was just programming the
DI: And therefore he didnít
decode a vibrational field, i.e., his daughter, into a holographic form.
Therefore he didnít see her.
And I completely agree that the
heart has the potential to be a massive part of our reality-decoding,
But we also have to appreciate that this
conspiracy... While we see the George Bushes of the
world and the Barack Obamas and
people like that, the Kissingers, the real level of this conspiracy,
where the world is being controlled, is on a vibrational
Thatís why I talk about these reptilians that are doing
this and others, too, operating outside this reality. They operate on a
level of the vibrational level. Thatís where the manipulationís going
DI: And we need to be, you
know, kind to ourselves as well, in understanding the challenges that we
face, and not least trying to understand a world that is being
manipulated into a state, or has been manipulated into a state, which
has just stopped us understanding the world.
And so, you know, we
look at television and the manipulation of television and newspapers and
stuff, but when we see a newspaper or we see a television program, weíre
just seeing the decoded version of a vibrational field.
newspapers and those television programs and news programs, all the rest
of it, they are actually ďphysical holographic representationsĒ of the
prime reality, which is a vibrational field.
BR: Yeah. Yes.
DI: Itís at that level
that that manipulation we call ďsubliminalĒ, that manipulation we call
ďlying to the people,Ē and all the rest of it, actually
And so basically what theyíve done is pull a vibrational
veil over us. If you can make it powerful enough and dense enough, you
focus peoplesí sense of perception into such a narrow area that they
disconnect from an awareness, and therefore a deep effect in their
perception of consciousness.
Youíre isolating their point of
observation into Mind. And thatís happening on a vibrational level which
then plays out in what we call the physical world.
DI: So whatís vital - and this
is why this information is so important - not just... Iíll tell you what
Iíve found. Nothing represents literally and symbolically the prison
[more] than the left brain, which deals in
apartness, language, hierarchy, structure, and all this
And the information about the five-sense conspiracy, Iíve
found, one of its great values is that it operates in a left-brain
realm. When youíre explaining how this and that and the other is
connected to the same people, and they control that, and this is what
theyíre doing, and these are the techniques they use ... thatís
KC: Oh yeah.
And when people say: Oh, you shouldnít put out that information. Itís
negative. They donít understand that weíre looking at a multi-level
situation. Therefore we have to deal with it on a multi-level basis.
That means covering all bases, not just sitting cross-legged on a
BR: Of course.
DI: Now, what Iíve found
over the years is that once the left brain... Because symbolically I
see, you know, youíve got the left brain, which is what Iím talking
about. Youíve got the right brain which is a much more out-there
connection and sees everything in unity, the creative urge.
youíve got the bridge, the corpus callosum, which ideally should
be sharing information so youíve got a balance. Youíre in this world and
of it. You know.
But what the conspiracy does - again itís all on
a vibrational level that it goes in, and then it plays out here - is
they put, symbolically, soldiers on the door to the left
This is why, to progress within this society, one of the
most effective ways is to keep passing exams, and passing exams, and
getting degrees, and all this stuff, because thatís... An exam is:
Hereís some left-brain information, now give it me back on a paper
telling me what Iíve told you to believe. OK. Youíve done it very well.
Youíve got a first-class degree. A first-class indoctrination,
Now, what this conspiracy information, on a five-sense
level does, it talks to the left brain in the language the left brain
understands. And Iíve seen it over the time in my personal experience,
and of course other people would have seen it, it starts to make the
left brain change its sense of reality.
Once it starts to change
that, it starts to think: Well, hold on a second. If everything I
thought about the world here was wrong, and itís not like that at all,
what the heck else is in this world is not like I thought it
Iíve seen this, where people, once that left brain starts
this process of withdrawing from a sense of ďIt knows whatís going onĒ
to ďI never knewĒ... then it starts to move. As it starts to move, it
literally starts to open to other possibility, and then this movement
between the hemispheres can start to happen.
Iíve seen people who
would have laughed in my face about reality and all that stuff, who now
encompass it because they went through the process of credible names,
dates, places, five-sense information, explaining logically why the
world is not like they thought it was on a five-sense level. Everything
starts to move then.
So, you know, itís important that the
de-programming of peoplesí manipulated sense of reality happens on multi
levels, not just kind of, you know, ďWe must become spiritual, we must
go withinĒ, you know.
I mean, people say: Oh, Alex Jones, he
just frightens people. And all that. Well, hold on a second. You
know, just hold on a second.
You know whatís negative? Itís not
information. Itís ignorance. Thatís whatís negative - ignorance. And if
you want to be ignorant, and therefore a manipulatorís party trick, then
you go ahead.
And if you want to look at the information, the
five-sense information that I put out, and Alex puts out, and people
like that and many others, and say: Itís negative. Itís
Well, the fact that you find it frightening
instead of empowering because you now understand the game better and
therefore you have more power to do something about it, then that is not
a statement about those putting the information out. Itís a statement
about the way youíre receiving it.
BR: Exactly. Something that we like very much was
something that George Green said to us in our interview with us April of
last year. He used this little analogy.
He said: Listen, if your
car is on the railroad track, and thereís a train coming down, and you
donít know that, and I donít tell you, then itís shame on me for not
telling you and shame on you for not knowing. And this is just a nice
little way of encapsulating what youíre saying.
I have an analogy I use, very similar to that. I talk about the - not
the hurricane coming... What do you call them? The
BR: The tornadoes.
DI: The tornadoes.
Yeah. And the tornadoís coming but you have put your head in a bucket of
sand because you donít want to face the fact that the tornadoís coming.
Now, you can hide from that for a while, but youíre still there and the
tornadoís still coming. And your bum is still in the air, and itís going
to get smacked very shortly by a tornado.
If you lift your head
from the sand, face the situation that youíre in - thereís a tornado
coming - now you have taken power back to yourself by saying: OK. I see
the situation now. I can take avoiding action, for my
BR: Of course.
DI: And this is why
itís so important... You know, I hear people who you might New Age, who
talk about ďletting go of fearĒ and ďtaking your power back,Ē and ďCome
to this workshop and weíll show you how to do it.Ē
And then they
say: Oh, you mustnít talk about this conspiracy. Itís too negative. What
happened to letting go of fear and all this stuff, you
BR: These are the guys who heard that the Angel
Gabriel is going to come and save us, you know? That doesnít work
DI: Every level ... it seems to me every belief
system, every mind construct, seems to have a version of the cavalry
coming over the horizon, you know: OK. Hereís the cavalry. OK? Hereís
the cavalry. Hereís the cavalry. Thereís the cavalry.
And we need
to understand that, you know, because if we give our power away to other
people, where do those other people actually... Where do they actually
stand, physically, as we give our power away to them?
symbolically. So what weíre doing is giving the power away into the
illusion and then wondering why nothing ever changes.
conspiracy, or the foundation of the conspiracy, is to persuade 6
billion people to give their power away every day. And the power used to
control us is the power of these people saying: Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
Take it back, house of
cards comes down, because thatís what it is. Itís a house of cards, and
weíre holding it together in-here. Weíre constructing the house of cards
in-here. Great news... we can bring it down
KC: Right. But I have to say that weíre not only going
to do that with the Mind. Thatís whatís really important
BR: No, the Mind plays it out. We going to do it by
becoming conscious. Thatís the point.
KC: Absolutely, but
also left brain / right brain. I want to address that a little
KC: Because itís not enough to reconstruct reality
based on things getting to a place where you donít know, and then youíre
willing to open to a new construction of reality such that youíre going
to play the game different, but youíre still lodged in the left
You must bring in the holistic view, the view that
encompasses the heart, that encompasses the female, which is the
yin-yang side of things, because what we have here, has been playing out
for centuries, is a really yang view of reality, especially on the
Western side of the world.
DI: Well kind of. Iíd say it
KC: So what I have to say is, itís more than just
reconstructing the left brain in a new way to play the game better,
because thatís actually cheating yourself on another level.
need to grow and open the door between the left and the right brain,
such that there is a flow. And that means that youíre talking about the
heart. Youíre talking about senses that are beyond the five. And so you
What you had to do in your own exploration was... you
never would have gotten the information you wanted to get by staying in
the left brain. As you said, you had physical sensations. They locked
your feet. They gave you information that came out of nowhere. You
couldnít make logical sense of it. Logic was out the window. So left
brainís gone, you know. Itís even worse, or useless, when you get into
DI: I agree.
KC: So you must actually... Itís like traveling, in a
sense. You must actually travel to a different place. What you do
[meaning David] is, you follow your intuition.
KC: Youíre over on your, I guess they call it the
right side of the brain. Thatís where you are. Thatís where intuition
resides, so youíve opened that door. There is a flow. And thatís really
what has to happen.
DI: Well, yeah. I mean, I take my
intuition, which has guided me and has lead me to information. Also itís
like a filter. I have a vibrational sensation when something is not true
and something is true, and another one when itís maybe partly
KC: Thatís holistic.
DI: Yeah. The left
brainís still important in bringing those concepts down into a language
of communication that people can assimilate that are stuck in the left
brain. Because if you donít talk in logical - from their perspective,
logical terms that the left brain can understand, which is under lock
and key - then that key will never open.
And that is also why
what youíve just said, that you will... Except on rare occasions when
Iím talking in a very small time-scale or doing an interview on a
specific subject, I will never talk about the five-sense conspiracy
without the nature of reality, and the influence of Consciousness, and
all the rest of it.
Another point you make is about the heart. I
agree. The heart is absolutely at the heart of this and is much more
powerful than the brain and much more powerful than The Mind because it
is connected. I would say thatís what connects us through the
And this conspiracy also... Because, you know,
itís a simple thing. In the deep shadows behind the people in dark suits
is a force, whatever you want to call it, that understands how this
DI: So theyíve structured a
society that is to close down all the channels to Consciousness, to
isolate us in Mind because then weíre playing in their stadium. And one
of the key things they use is to close the heart. To close the
And if you want to open the heart and you want to become
conscious - itís what I say in my talks - then what we need to do is to
ask the question: What would Consciousness do at this
Would Consciousness, when weíre faced with this set of
circumstances say: Well, whatís the best outcome for me? No.
Consciousness would say: What is the right, just, fair thing in this
situation for me to do?
And if we, when weíre faced with choices
all through the day, ask that question: In this circumstance, what would
Consciousness do? And act upon it Ė crucially - then everything changes.
And our life changes.
Why? Because we are now starting to
resonate with Consciousness because weíre
operating in its realm, which is... By doing what we say Consciousness
would do in these circumstances, we are vibrationally locking in to that
level and therefore becoming more and more influenced by
When we say: Well, yeah, I see that, but itís not
good for me if I do whatís right in this situation. I must do whatís
right for me. Thatís Mind, so thatís locking you into Mind.
know, this thing about becoming conscious... I see it so often all over
the world. I mean, I was in India just before Christmas. And, you know,
good luck to them, but they make it sound so complicated.
know, a lot of the complication, I see this with New Age people that
stand on stages and do workshops, not all of them of course. I see it
with gurus in India and stuff like that. Not all of them, again, but
vast numbers of them.
The complexity says two things: One, they
donít really understand it, because if you really understand something,
you can put it in simple language.
BR: Iíd agree with that.
DI: This is why
you get academia repeating jargon. And you say: Look, Iím an idiot,
mate. OK? Iíve never passed an exam in me life. I left school at 15 to
be professional soccer player. Youíre going to have to put it in
language I can understand. They canít because they donít really
understand it. Theyíre just repeating jargon.
And the other side
of the complexity of becoming conscious is, if you can make it sound
complex, then youíve taken power over your potential audience. Thatís a
KC: Absolutely. Itís still a power
DI: You have to come through me. And the more I make
it sound complex, the more power I have, and therefore the more you must
come to me, and the longer you must stay with me. And, by the way, put
the check in the box as you leave. [Kerry laughs]
And yet it is
so simple. This is the point I would make. People talk about ďWe must
become consciousĒ. Itís a lie.
We are conscious. That is our
natural state. Whatís happened is, barriers that we have been
manipulated - and weíve, you know, must take responsibility for it too,
big time - are put in place, have symbolically created a concrete shell
around our natural state. And in this concrete shell are all the things
that control people - fear and stress, and conflict, and seeking
success, and competition, and all this stuff.
Itís not that we
have to become conscious. We are conscious. Itís breaking that shell.
And that shell is Mind domination. If we can break that shell, we become
BR: Itís like the lie thatís in language when people
say: My spirit, My soul, and Iím hungry. Itís like, wait a minute, this
is the wrong way around here. You know: I have a body and my body is
hungry. My body is tired. And I am a soul and I am a spirit.
language, which is a product of The Mind in the first place, because we
donít think how... We donít talk how we think. We think how we talk. And
language is one of the ways in which weíre programmed.
A massive, massive way.
BR: As George Orwell pointed out in
DI: Programming the computer. But what are words?
Theyíre vibrational fields. So, again, even the words... The programmers
are actually coming in at a vibrational level, a waveform level, and
theyíre only decoded into language when they pass though the brain
BR: Thatís true.
DI: So everything gets
in, that plays out-here, gets in at vibrational level. Thatís why we
need to get to that level of ourselves and clear ourselves out because
thatís where all the patterns are put in.
And I use this analogy
in my talks, that, you know, a ball, its natural place in a tank of
water is on the top, just floating away. Itís a natural state. Free.
If you want to put the ball in an unnatural state
in the tank, youíve got to put in on the bottom of the tank and youíve
got to hold it there. You canít put it there and itíll stay there
because itís not its natural state. Its natural state is floating on the
top. Our natural state is being conscious.
So what their
manipulation has had to do is - and this says something about the true
scale of who we are - it has had to bombard us with so many multi-level
systems of control, diversion, and manufactured ignorance, to
symbolically hold the ball on the bottom. And it hasnít
KC: Actually, theyíre mounting, these systems of
control. Thatís what the move towards a Fascist state and a world
government is all about.
I actually heard an interview with you
in which you talked about that fact. You see, the fact that we are - to
use your analogy, which is a very good one - we are Consciousness and as
that ball we are moving as a group towards the surface of the water.
Weíre actually getting out of their grasp.
KC: As that happens, theyíre intensifying their game
to want to keep that ball down and so thatís why the stakes are rising
on both sides.
DI: Couldnít agree
KC: And whatís going to happen is... Look at the
natural, I mean, even the metaphor is perfect because whatís going to
happen ultimately, the water and the ball are going to win. OK? Thereís
no way that those forces... As much as they intensify, sometime,
somewhere that ball is going to get to the surface, like it or not, The
Powers That Be.
KC: Now, whatís going to be interesting is if they
actually start understanding on a deeper level than power and their
power-over because ďIíve got the clueĒ and ďIíve got the keyĒ. Thatís
what the Illuminati, you know, thatís what they think.
think: If you donít get it, then we can hold you down. You deserve to be
held down. Thatís actually their... Iím sure you know this. This is
So what happens when we, because weíre greater
than our bodies... the Consciousness that we are is greater than what
they are because theyíre on limitation, start to win in their own mind?
You see? And they start to let go.
Because this is whatís
probably happening. There have to be many members that have been under
the thumb of this game and have joined and are being, you know, will be
patted on the head and given all the reinforcement necessary to keep
them in the game. What happens when they start to see the light, so to
DI: And some of them, Iím sure, already are,
because thereís nothing more fiercely compartmentalized than this whole
control structure itself.
Thereís so many people within the
control structure, right down into mainstream society, that are daily
contributing to this gathering Fascist global state, who have no idea of
the true implications of it. Or, as they go up higher and higher, have
been mislead about the nature of themselves, reality, and the force
KC: So the nature of the chaos and the destruction
will actually work in the favor of releasing the ball because what
happens is, during chaos you can change sides, you see. You can
actually, you know... Itís really hard to maintain control during a time
DI: Yeah. I agree. What I would say is
that the ball will get to the top of the water when the ball realizes
that it is the water. [Kerry laughs]
And the scale of the
movement and the speed of movement of this conspiracy now as it puts in
more and more surveillance, more and more control, more and more
centralization of power, etcetera...Iíve been saying for years now that
is not about even gathering more power. It is about defending the
control thatís already there. Because they understand.
I mean, if
I can go to a psychic in England in 1990 to be told through this psychic
that this vibrational change was coming, was going to create a spiritual
revolution... I mean, are the Illuminati families not going to know that
this spiritual change, this vibrational alarm clock is coming? Of course
they are and theyíve known about it for a long time.
And so, what
weíre looking at is a... I mean, when you lose the power - from ďWeíre
in control and weíre going to get more powerĒ to ďWe must impose more
and more control to stop this happeningĒ - theyíre not in a, if you
like, a pro-active situation now as they push this Orwellian state
Theyíre in a defensive situation, trying to keep the lid on
human ignorance as this vibrational change brings it to the
DI: And, you know, compared
with Consciousness, this Illuminati... I mean, theyíre flies on an
elephantís back, you know, and theyíre going to get removed.
think itís not about winning the game, and itís not about losing the
game. Itís about realizing the nature of the game, and the fact that
itís not about winning and losing, itís just about
And as these pyramids of control, certainly the
lower levels first, start getting picked off by this vibrational change,
and people start to see things differently, you know...
been saying for 20 years, look at a pyramid. The capstoneís the place of
the power. No itís not. The capstoneís up there because the rest of the
pyramidís holding the bugger up there. The rest of the pyramid moves
away, whereís the capstone going to go? Itís going to crash to the
floor. Thereís nothing holding it up. We are holding up the structure
that is our own control system.
I used to tell a story years ago.
Youíll remember, Bill; Larry Grayson, a comedian in the UK.
DI: I knew Larry towards the
end of his life. He used to do big shows on the BBC and I was invited to
his memorial service at Covent Garden after he died.
another comedian in Britain called Roy Hudd, and he did this
presentation about Larryís life. He told this story, and I sat there and
I felt: Whoooo, that is so profound when applied to what weíre talking
Roy Hudd said that Larry Grayson had told him this story,
that in the days of music hall-type theater or the last vestiges of it,
Larry was in an all-male show going around Britain. And he was the woman
in it, because he used to dress up as a woman, Larry.
scene of the show, or the final part of the show, was all the men ran on
the stage dressed as sailors, singing Rule Britannia. You know,
[sings] Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves, and all that
stuff. You know, Britain has to rule everything.
as this songís reaching its climax, all these sailors climb on each
otherís backs and form a pyramid on the stage. Right? And then Larry
Grayson came on dressed as Britannia, with the gown and the helmet and
the sword, and was manhandled up to the top of the pyramid of these men,
you know, the big finish with the sword.
And he said, one night
things seemed to be going rather well, he said, until one of the sailors
in the bottom left-hand corner got a cough. Right? And the cough got
worse and worse and worse until he couldnít hold his place in the
pyramid anymore. And heís standing on the stage at the bottom of the
pyramid, this guy. You know. Ethel Jones and Charlie Smith.
in the end he couldnít hold it anymore because the cough got too bad,
and he had to step out of the pyramid. What happened was, Larry Grayson
at the top, symbolic of this Illuminati, ended up in the second row
[Bill laughs] because the whole pyramid collapsed because one little guy
on the left-hand bottom corner got a cough.
BR: Yes. Lovely.
DI: You know, pyramid
power, in one way, is all roads from the base of the pyramid lead up to
the point of the pyramid, and thatís how they
BR: The thing that I would like to connect up with
here... Itís so interesting what youíre saying and we passionately agree
with your thesis here. And one of the things which I love about your
work is that itís like, in order to control, rather, one good way to
control somebody is to lie to them. And therefore, if youíre being lied
to, and someone is trying to control you, these things are intimately
BR: And we are being convinced that this reality is
all that there is, that these are just animated hunks of meat that last
three score years and ten, and then thatís our lot. And then either
weíre pushing up daisies or we go to heaven or go to hell, which is
another trap and another lie.
BR: And meanwhile thereís some fascinating things
going on behind the scenes. And, as you must have known from your own
research and your own contacts and your own conversations that youíve
got a magical component to the controllers - meant in the real
definition of the word magic - black magic ceremonies, rituals,
sacrifices, all kinds of things that you and I donít want to know about.
But actually this is part of the truth of the matter. This is what they
do. They evoke djinns. They do strange things.
DI: Yeah. I
was getting an enormous amount of stuff about that in the late
BR: And itís not pleasant to look at, and itís real.
And then thereís another aspect to this, which is something thatís been
coming at us quite a lot from Black Projects insiders, which is not the
black magic, but the black technology, which was well stated by Richard
Hoagland, who told us that heíd had a phone call from an insider who
said that ďThey would rather lose an American city than give up their
And this new physics... We were told by somebody
who we met in Thailand in October; weíve given him the pseudonym of Jake
Simpson. We know the guy very well. He said that the state of black
physics at the moment is... When I say black physics, itís like secret
physics, as in Black Operations.
BR: Those guys are not all evil people, but theyíre on
the inside and theyíre playing these games with all the resources and
all the knowledge that is denied the public domain.
BR: [Black physics is] ten thousand years ahead of
public sector physics, they say, accelerating away from public sector
knowledge at the rate of 1000 years a year. I checked those figures with
him. Thatís a lot of zeroes. Ten thousand years ahead! And he told us,
for instance, that the technology exists to phase-shift soldiers,
Special Forces soldiers, so that they can walk through
DI: Iíve heard that, a few years
BR: Youíve heard that?
BR: Thatís... Yeah. Itís an interesting corroboration.
These little stories pop up here and there in different
DI: I think the thing is, Bill, that the
reason for the fast acceleration is thereís a critical point where you
understand reality, and from that point the potential just absolutely
soars. Whereas, because of the suppression of science in the public
arena, theyíre nowhere near, yet, that line where the potential
So in the secret projects theyíve crossed that line and
therefore theyíre accelerating away, at the rate you talk about, from
mainstream scientific understanding.
BR: Thatís exactly right.
thereís other dimensional intelligences who have gotten to that
DI: Absolutely right.
KC: Itís really a key. And ETs - negative, you know,
service-to-self ETs, basically - that theyíre working with, and
certainly becoming aware of the veil behind the veil.
can talk about Consciousness and Mind as we have here, but if you want
to lay out, you know, if you want to understand whatís really going on,
you do have to talk about ETs and you have to talk about
interdimensional entities and also...
KC: ...entities that donít have physical
DI: Sure. Thatís what I was saying earlier. Weíve
got to do this on all levels because itís operating on all
BR: The best presentation which I heard of the answer
to one of the most important questions - and I canít remember whether it
was yourself or Jordan Maxwell, or perhaps both, who said:
could humans do the things that they do to other humans on this planet,
as they seem to really be doing? How could we be trashing this planet,
our home, in the way that we are, at the behest of the controllers? How
could humans be doing this?
And the answer is that actually
theyíre not human at the highest level. Is this something that you said,
or was that Jordan Maxwell?
DI: Thatís the thing that Iíve
been talking about for a while because, you know, this reality... We
keeping talking about different levels. This reality obviously operates
on different levels. Youíve got the wave vibrational level. Youíve got
the electromagnetic level. Youíve got the visible light level. And
youíve got the digital level.
And when you talk about the level
of advancement and potential that you mentioned earlier, it is a cinch
to... if you look at where the development of Artificial Intelligence is
moving now within this Stone Age level of awareness, imagine what is
possible at the cutting edge of the secret projects, and even beyond
that, in the realms of the non-human levels of this.
without question, the ability to create Artificial Intelligence that
looks to our... in the decoded world, because Iím decoding you now. What
you are is a vibrational field.
So if you can create a
vibrational field with Artificial Intelligence that is vibrating
externally in the same form, range, that a human body is, this...
Basically itís a biological computer human body, but whatís animating it
is different to what animates ours. Then Iím going to decode you or Iím
going to decode this Artificial Intelligence, just like the lady in the
red dress in The Matrix
DI: And sheís going to look
just like you and me. I remember being in that ayahuasca state in 2003
and that female voice said to me: If you programmed a computer to abuse
a child, would the computer have any emotional consequence for that, any
emotional reaction? None. It would just do what itís programmed to
And one of the most blatant things about these Illuminati
bloodlines is they have no empathy. They have no ability to empathize
with the consequences for others of their actions. Thatís why there are
no limits. You know, pepper-bombing Baghdad. To us, horrific. Terrific
emotional consequence. To them, nothing. Just like a
And they are like computers. And to a large extent,
thatís why some of them are so bright, you know. My computer on my desk
can work things out quicker than I can in some areas, where itís just,
you know, working out to a program. It has no wisdom. It has no empathy.
It has no heart or Consciousness, but on a mental level it can work very
And these people are very sharp mentally. Thereís no
doubt about it. Some of these people are very sharp mentally. But they
have no heart, no balancing qualities of Consciousness.
convinced theyíre Artificial Intelligence. When I look at someone like
Kissinger, I mean, I see an Artificial Intelligence that has been
created by a very, very advanced knowledge and it looks just like you
and me because thatís the way we decode it, you know.
know, again, Bill, when you were talking about their rituals and what
have you, what are the rituals doing? Itís all about creating a
vibrational field. Theyíre creating an energetic environment that allows
these interdimensional entities to move into this dimension, at least
briefly. And what theyíre also doing is accessing through these rituals
the vibrational level of reality, which is the prime level of reality,
which we decode into this.
So, what theyíre doing on one level
with these rituals - which they often do at vortex points, which are
very powerful in affecting the vibrational state of the planet. The
communication lines, like meridian lines that we have in the body, the
If they do a ritual where a lot of these lines meet,
then the vibrational effect of that ritual is going out down these lines
and theyíre affecting us because weíre being affected by that
vibrational level, that prime level. So Iíve no doubt at all theyíve got
technology, too, that is creating disharmony within the vibrational
level of this reality, which then will create disharmony here, you
And the thing is though... I remember that scene in The
Matrix - because people read things in different ways. I read Neoís
journey as becoming conscious. I think thatís probably what they meant,
but thatís the way I read it, very powerfully.
There was a point
where heís in a simulation with the Morpheus character, and Morpheus is
explaining about the Agents. Now, for Agents read people that youíre
talking about that have the ability to do incredible things within this
reality ícause they understand how it works and they keep it from the
DI: And people whoíve watched
The Matrix will remember the scene because the Agent, Agent Smith, is in
freeze-frame in this thing, with a gun. And the Morpheus character says
to Neo: People have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but
air. But their strength and their speed is still based on a world based
of that, they can never be as fast or as strong as you can
DI: Because within this
virtual reality, there are rules to the game. Some of them are called
laws of physics and such like. Consciousness overcomes those laws, does
not recognize them, is not entrapped by them. So as we become conscious,
we move beyond the box that the controlling force is actually
During my talks I put two boxes. Oneís got, symbolically, a
reptilian on it. On a smaller one itís got humans on it. What theyíve
done, and the whole foundation of how itís been possible... Because
theyíre in a box. Otherwise, they wouldnít be doing what theyíre
DI: And if theyíre
Artificial Intelligence, theyíre obviously in a box with a lid on that
doesnít open. But they manage to control human society by putting humans
in a smaller box than theyíre in.
Again we come back. Symbolic of
the box, theyíre holding the ball on the bottom of the tank. As we
become conscious, we go beyond their potential, and thatís what theyíre
BR: Let me tell the story about Bill Birnes and
Admiral George Hoover. I donít know if youíve heard this one, but
weíd love to tell this one on camera.
BR: Bill Birnes, Los Angeles-based editor of UFO
Magazine, talked to Admiral George Hoover from the Office of Naval
Intelligence before he died, when he was an elderly man. He had one of
these turn-around experiences when he was very old, and he started to
talk to Bill Birnes about what was really going on.
wanted to know about things like the Roswell crash, all of this
stuff. And one of the things that George Hoover told Bill Birnes was
that the Roswell crash, the Visitors there, they were time travelers.
They were us from the future, time-traveling future humans, which weĎve
heard from other sources as well.
The most important thing,
though, the biggest secret, was how powerful we are, the Consciousness
we have, the ability that we have. And Bill Birnesí words from George
Hoover were: Our ability to manipulate the Consciousness around us. And
if we started to do that, as far as the controllers were concerned, we
would create havoc.
And this is what must not be known. It must
not be known how powerful we are. Because the time-traveling future
humans used their Consciousness in order to bridge these
What these disks are, according to Hoover, and also
according to Philip Corso, who wrote
The Day after Roswell, is
that they are sort of like amplifiers and focusing devices of
Consciousness, and the pilots are an integral part of the
And as any quantum physicist will tell you, itís
Consciousness that actually has the ability to determine whether
SchrŲdingerís cat is alive or dead, to determine probabilistic quantum
outcomes, to actually influence reality. You canít do quantum physics
without taking account of Consciousness.
Therefore this means if
you have a very high control, an ability in that realm, it sort of
bridges Mind and Consciousness. Then, just as great adepts are said to
be able to do, you can bi-locate. So, OK. So weíll do it all together.
Weíll do it in a craft. Itíll help us. Itíll amplify us.
is what the crafts are. And this is why they were baffled when they
opened up these things. They couldnít find an engine.
That female voice in the ayahuasca experiences said to me: Why do you
fly in a plane when youíre only flying through
BR: [laughs] Exactly.
DI: And what came
to mind when you were talking there, Bill, was the carry-on of that
scene in The Matrix with Agent Smith, where heís saying: Heíll never be
as strong and fast as you can be.
And then the Neo character
says: Do you mean Iíll be able to dodge bullets?
No, Neo. When
youíre ready, you wonít have to.
Controlling your experience, you
know. You donít have to dodge bullets. Youíre going to make sure no-one
ever shoots at you.
BR: You arenít in a position where you have to dodge
DI: Yeah. And you know, people have said to me so
many times over the years, right from the early days: Why arenít you
dead? And it may sound... you know... I can only say what I know deep
inside: They canít. They canít. They canít. They canít. They
If we were coming to do something, and all it took was
someone to shoot a bullet and itís all over, whatís the point? They
What I would say very strongly, and itís coming more and
more into my life, there is an x-factor which I donít understand yet but
I sure as hell know itís there. And itís an x-factor which is going to
bring an end to this childish playground nonsense of human
BR: Do you mean an external
DI: Thereís something. Something. I absolutely,
at a deep level, I know it. And whenever I think about it, whenever Iíve
been clear about what Iím talking about now, what I see clearly is the
planet with a cell / prison around it, and a big lock, and a key going
And Iíll tell you a funny story. Well, not a funny story.
Iíll tell you a story. I was feeling so strongly about this about two
weeks ago, and immediately after, I went on the internet and Iím going
through, Iím looking for a picture for my talk. And in front of me was a
planet in a prison cell, with a big lock on it, which said Master on it,
and a key.
That x-factor, that master key, itís coming. Itís
coming. And itís not going to come like cavalry to save everything, but
it is a big factor in... Iím absolutely convinced that the end of this
prison society is a done deal. I think the outcome is going to happen. I
think itís meant to happen.
Weíre now seeing, and it will go on
for a while, but weíre now seeing the last throes of a dying system
where the Illuminati in their box are believing theyíre crashing the
system to create something else, when itís actually crashing,
ultimately, for another reason.
BR: Is there a real danger? Because youíve got a
cornered tiger that is at its most dangerous when itís cornered. Is that
DI: Oh, these people in their panic are going to
thrash out in all bloody directions. But, you know, thatís just part of
this transition from where we are to where weíre going.
thing is, you know, you can look at the news and you can see the
conspiracy moving on. In Britain itís just getting
But what you donít see on the news, and therefore
itís not in your awareness, is how fast the awakening from the amnesic
sleep is moving on. And itís moving on dramatically quickly.
not saying that tomorrow the sunís going to come up and everythingís
going to be fine, you know. Weíre deeply into a transitional period here
and thereís going to be a lot of challenges, and this thingís going to
move on further. But the outcome, I think, is a done deal. This is going
down, and then we can start to create a new society based on
Consciousness values rather than the limitations of Mind.
would just say this, because I think this is important. From my point of
view itís important. I think, you know, thereís a great danger that this
2012 thing is going to be a massive, massive
BR: Itís a spiritual Y2K.
Thatís what I call it, actually, a spiritual Y2K, myself. And me, of all
people, who saw a psychic in 1990 and was told a vibrational change was
coming. I, of all people, should be saying: Yeah, look! 2012. Thatís it. Itís more
evidence of vibrational change, the transformation! I cannot sync with
that at all.
Whatís slightly concerning is the number of emails I
get, and other people I know, their websites get, of people saying:
Whatís the point of doing anything ícause itís all going to change in
DI: Thatís like Obama
selling hope, which is always the horse in front on the carousel. No
matter how fast you go around, you never get closer to the horse in
front. Thatís what hope does. What hope is, especially in the way Obama
uses it, and what 2012 has the deep potential of becoming, is a
holding-position, where people who could be doing something now just
is 2012 symbolically? Itís the cavalry coming.
DI: Hey! Hey! The cavalryís
here! Itís not coming. Itís here.
DI: The cavalry needs to get
on its horse, incidentally, and stop waiting for another one to
KC: Exactly. I mean itís like Neo in the place where
heís at, where he realizes that he has the ability to become
All-That-Is, and therefore bullets pass through him because heís no
KC: Heís actually everywhere. I mean, I know itís
words, but in a sense that is the key that we all hold. And whatís
happening in a sense is, with the wave, thereís actually a facilitation
Weíve been told by various people, but one in
particular, Jake Simpson, who has been on the inside, talks about
regardless of how you view the future, this wave of energy is actually
coming towards our planet, or you could view it as our planet, solar
system, is moving into this energy. It is coming.
So itís like if
youíre surfing and you know a wave is coming, thereís whole groups of
people on the planet getting ready to ride the wave. And so in a sense
they have to have the key in order to ride the wave. In a sense you
could say the surfboard, the Consciousness, the key to understanding who
they are and what Consciousness really is and how they are united, which
is part of the key.
KC: Because we are united. You see, if we know that we
are everywhere, and weíre totally linked up... See, Iím in this body
right now, youíre in that body right now, and between us it looks like
thereís empty space. But in reality this is Consciousness, this space is
incorporated, so there is actually no break between you and I and Bill
here. Weíre all in this sea of Consciousness.
three tips of the same iceberg.
DI: Thatís why becoming
conscious is the bottom line of everything. If we donít become conscious
and move into these realms of understanding this sort of stuff youíre
talking about - that weíre all one Consciousness experiencing itself
subjectively; life is only a dream; matter is just energy condensed to a
slower vibration, as Bill Hicks used to say --unless we come from this
Whatís the key thing of any dictatorship?
Itís divide and rule. And so, the whole basis of what theyíre doing is
taking Consciousness, Consciousness, Consciousness, Consciousness, and
dividing it in upon itself.
You know, what weíre seeing here is,
basically, Consciousness so manipulated that itís at war with itself
because itís come to so... itís been brought to such a low level of
awareness compared with its potential.
And so the spiritual and
the streetwise, the five-cents conspiracy and the understanding of the
nature of reality, theyíve got to go together. And you know, for too
long theyíve been apart.
People say: Oh spiritual. Thatís New
Age. Oh yeah, thatís credible. Spiritual? Thatís New Age. Is that
credible? And all that stuff. They have to come together because as one
unit theyíre unstoppable. Apart, again, divide and rule; they have a
fraction of their potential power for change. If people come from the
heart, theyíll know what to do.
DI: If people come from
their head, it will tell them a long list of things why thereís nothing
they can do or why thereís no point in doing them.
Weíre at a
fork in the road, you know, symbolically, because itís a balance of the
two that weíre looking for, ideally, here. But symbolically itís a
choice between the head and the heart. Itís a head-domination or a
heart-domination of our sense of reality.
If we take the heart
route, then this world will transform from a manifestation of Mind to a
manifestation of Consciousness. It has to because this is just a
projection. This [out-there] has to follow what goes on here
If we take the choice of Mind, then weíre going to
live in a global version of Nazi Germany. My strong
feeling is, although weíre going to go closer to a global version of
Nazi Germany, ultimately the whole thing will collapse because the
awakening will cease to hold it together.
BR: If you were a betting man, what would you say the
timescale of events, the rollout, will be over the next one, two, three,
five, ten years? If you were a historian, what do you think youíd be
DI: Iíd say - and Iím probably being
optimistic - Iíd say we would live in a global version of Nazi Germany
within ten years if we take that route [the head]. If we take that route
[the heart], weíll in ten yearsí time be deeply into a transition to a
very different world. Itís just a choice.
But this x-factor is
going to help us to change the world to one that I would like to live
in. I donít know what the x-factor is, but I know itís coming. Itíll be
KC: Well thank you,
DI: Thanks, Kerry.
DI: Itís been a pleasure.
BR: Thank you so much.
KC: Looking forward to the future.
BR: Thatís a good wrap.
KC: And the
future is now.
BR: And the future is
DI: And always was.